Tuesday, May 27, 2008

Must Watch Dever

Ed Stetzer (who needs to stop tapping the table) conducts a great interview with Mark Dever. It is great because of the clarity Mark brings to many issues, but primarily the whole "redeem the culture" notion.

The interview proceeds in two parts.

HT: Thabiti


  1. I heard Keller say recently that he no longer talks about redeeming culture after Carson pressed him.

    I've been doing some thinking though about the cultural mandate from Genesis - there's still something there, although we need to be careful in how we articulate it.

    Good interview. Thanks.

  2. Very helpful. Thanks for posting this, Paul.
    As for Darryl's comment, I'm not sure what in Genesis talks about redeeming the culture. I do see blessing coming to Pharaoh residually as a result of Yahweh's hand of blessing on Joseph. . .but 400 years later that culture sure was not redeemed! Backing up, it's interesting that in the genealogy of Cain in Genesis 4, the line of the seed of the serpent, culture is begun. The first city builder, music-makers, tool-makers, iron fashioners, tent-makers, are also in the line that has the first murderers (Cain and Lamech), polygamist (Lamech), the prideful boaster (Lamech). This line is clearly the perpetuation of the seed of the serpent referred to in Genesis 3:15. This is not to say that music and cities are evil, but it is to say that they begin in the line of the seed of the serpent, and that they can be depraved. Where are they redeemed in Genesis? I do see the entire line of the serpent wiped out in Genesis 6-9. That's not very redeeming!
    Please don't read mockery into those thoughts. They are meant as honest questions. I'm a learner who is very ignorant. I currently strongly side with what Dever said in these videos, but have not read Keller or Carson in this regard, even though their books are on my 'read soon' list.

  3. Ian:

    No problem. I don't think you're mocking.

    You can read more about the cultural mandate here:

    Of course, the cultural mandate is a whole theological topic in itself, and there are various views. Tullian Tchividjian blogs about it here:

  4. Darryl,
    Thanks for the links to help me think through these things.
    I hope to meet you some time - you only live and minister an hour away from me! Maybe at one of the pastor's gatherings Paul is organizing in the fall.
    In Christ, Ian.

  5. Ian:

    I'll look forward to that, God willing.

  6. Ed Stetzer: "....not the typical reformed crap right here today." 46 second mark to the 48 second mark.

    Is that what Ed Stetzer says there; "typical reformed crap" because it sure sounds like it from here after listening to it several times to make sure I wasn't hearing awrong. I got my wife to listen to it as well and she said he may as well have said "not the typical reformed shit" if he used the word "crap" because that is what that word means to us here in New Zealand. Is that what Ed Stetzer means there? Is he showing his disdain for Reformed theology, for Reformed Christians? If that is what he means or is getting at then he sure has got a problem on his hands. Unconfessed SIN! True? A lot of people hate Reformed theology and Reformed Christians and not necessarily for the right reasons. For all the wrong reasons and excuses, especially when they promote false teachers and Scripture twisters and false doctrines as some of those speakers at that Conference do, eh?

  7. Take Tim Stevens for instance, is he a godly example to hold up before all as a man who carefully and accurately handles the Word of God?

    What about Perry Noble, is he a sound teacher of God's Holy Word?

    Do those men really fear God and tremble at his Word? I don't think so. I do not see the holiness of God in these mens lives. More worldy than anything else.

    Have these men turned the church into a circus?

    Is Old Truth dot com correct in their assessments?

  8. He may have said "typical Reformed crowd"

  9. i think what Mark is opposing is the concept of common grace in culture, which has led to all kinds of abuses.

    The way to look at it is to see the cultural or creation mandate as being achieved through the evangelistic mandate. In other words, Gen 1:28 is to be fulfilled through Matt 28:18-20. The first Adam failed in his mission to subdue the earth to God's glory because of sin. The Second Adam comes to accomplish what the first Adam failed to do. We see this in Psalm 8 and Heb 2, where the "man" there refers first to Adam and then to Christ. In this sense, Christ is the redeemer of culture and He will
    accomplish His purposes through His Church in this world.