tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post114237543986521000..comments2023-08-24T06:39:31.113-04:00Comments on Preacher Thoughts: Sheepish ExcusesPaulhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13529451903923820189noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142637097883327462006-03-17T18:11:00.000-05:002006-03-17T18:11:00.000-05:00Sorry - just saw Ken's good advice... (he posted 2...Sorry - just saw Ken's good advice... (he posted 26 seconds before me!)Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529451903923820189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142637025441300452006-03-17T18:10:00.000-05:002006-03-17T18:10:00.000-05:00Odious - thank you for the correction. (You are s...Odious - thank you for the correction. (You are so helpful at that!)<BR/><BR/>Traveler - I wish I had some good advice for you. The only hope you have IMHO is to pray. If you are not in leadership, then you are not in a position to do much more than appeal to the leaders. I don't want to sound hopeless, for God is able to do mighty things. I would say, pray much; talk little; speak humbly; ask questions; listen carefully; pray more; stay close to the Lord through His Word. <BR/>Anyone else add anything?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529451903923820189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142636999453462352006-03-17T18:09:00.000-05:002006-03-17T18:09:00.000-05:00Traveler, If you stay you need to make sure of a...Traveler,<BR/> <BR/>If you stay you need to make sure of a few things: 1) That a constant diet of thelogical junk food does not turn you into what you see your church becoming, 2) That you do not develop a bitter spirit that may result from constantly battling in an atmosphere that should be irenic, 3) that you get your soul fed. If you continue where you are your soul is in danger of drying up. Make sure you get fed, and remember that no amount of internet, books etc. is an adequate substitute for fellowship with fellow lovers of Christ. It is a dangerous thing to stay in a church JUST to change it. Pray hard and keep your powder dry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142611771009463292006-03-17T11:09:00.000-05:002006-03-17T11:09:00.000-05:00Ahhh. Your post hits one of my chief concerns on t...Ahhh. Your post hits one of my chief concerns on the nose. I'm a student in a church that is running down the "church growth" cliff. The gospel is getting scarce from the pulpit and emphasis is getting more heavily placed on our strategies for getting people to "come to church". I have serious concerns that people are being made members after mental assention to the gospel facts. (unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God")<BR/><BR/>I am staying because I do not think it is right to leave unless I have made a legitamite effort to reform the church. If I fail then I have standing to leave. Otherwise I am not loving my brethren that reside in that church still. I find this to be a heavy burden since it is hard to reform without much support from a church body and no "leadership position".<BR/><BR/>Any thoughts or advice on my situation?The Travelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03439167710586323924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142575777114719142006-03-17T01:09:00.000-05:002006-03-17T01:09:00.000-05:00I wonder if you're talking about a mixture of "chu...I wonder if you're talking about a mixture of "church-goer sheep" and "regenerate sheep". While the regenerate realize the lack of life and may be hanging around in a missionary sort of role, the church-goers could well be there for the socializing, the coffee, the appearance of doing what's right, not knowing or caring that there is no life. As far as they're concerned the grass is green and the grazing is good.<BR/><BR/>Have you ever met anyone who <I>enjoyed</I> attending a church with a wayward (or negligent) shepherd? I'm not saying it's necessarily so, but I think it's likely that many there don't miss the Truth and the Life because they don't <I>know</I> the Truth and the Life. As you mentioned, some would really do best to pack up and ske-daddle for their own sake, but there are also those who can't bear to leave because there are still sheep headed for the cliff.DErifterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00812393033282381213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142568994206829122006-03-16T23:16:00.000-05:002006-03-16T23:16:00.000-05:00No, but you did call Ken's father his father-in-la...No, but you did call Ken's father his father-in-law. ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142542120796347432006-03-16T15:48:00.000-05:002006-03-16T15:48:00.000-05:00But you are talking about a whole different scenar...But you are talking about a whole different scenario... one that I am more than familiar with. That is, going or staying in a wayward church <I>as a shepherd</I> trying to get the flock going in the right direction. Some would describe this as "reforming" a congregation, and there is certainly place for godly men like your father-in-law to do just that. What I am trying to suggest is that there is no point in sheep staying in a place if they have kids or want a congregation where they can bring new believers.<BR/>I think the two scenarios are a world apart. I didn't even abuse an apostrophe to say that!Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529451903923820189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142539742524266082006-03-16T15:09:00.000-05:002006-03-16T15:09:00.000-05:00I am reminded of the story of a man who was asked ...I am reminded of the story of a man who was asked why he stayed in the liberal denomination he was in. His answer? "It's not a bad boat to fish from". A reason with at least a little meat to it, although it is only good for someone who has no children to warry about being infected by the badness of the place.<BR/><BR/>I asked my father once, who was pastoring in a church that was very dead, why he stayed there. His reply? "I am afraid what will follow me when I leave". He proved prophetic but at least gave the church some truth for a while and we pray that eternity will show the fruit of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11006198.post-1142527359224863812006-03-16T11:42:00.000-05:002006-03-16T11:42:00.000-05:00Very good points, Paul.Maybe people would do bette...Very good points, Paul.<BR/><BR/>Maybe people would do better to ask less relationally-motivated questions, eh! Maybe they would do better by asking whether the shepherds in the church are keeping watch over their souls (Acts 20:28), or whether they are regularly hearing the truth preached plainly and in such a way that the shepherd/pastors will not be accountable if the sheep die spiritually (cf. Ezekiel 33). If not, then they should also ask whether they are spiritual maverics who can survive on their own while their shepherds FAIL to shepherd. I know I'm too weak to be in a church that fails regarding the Word and shepherding! <BR/>Ian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com